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Got shout at today
  • KentaKenta
    Posts: 236
    So I went to the dog park today, sitting in the grass chatting with this other guy. Our dogs were playing and I was telling him about this women who went totally mad 2 days ago. Kitsu was playing with her dog (which is also a puppy), but he played really rough, cause he's used to play like that with Kenta. She was asking me with such arrogance: who's dog is this? I said he was mine. She asked me if I thought it was normal the way he acted and I told her he just plays like that. She picked her dog up and walked away...... right, very clever ma'am...

    Well today I saw her again, Kitsu ran to her dog again and she was like yelling at him GO AWAY FUCKING DOG. And then she kicked him, so I got really pissed, I HATE people who do something to my dogs. She was yelling at me and I told her she don't have to scream at me, I can hear her without the screaming. She told me she yells because she is angry that I didn't do anything about it, so I told her i'm not going to do anything when he's just playing. She got more angry with me and said I had to leave this dog park because her dog wants to swim, like dude seriously?? I have to leave in a public space so your dog can swim?? Right. She kept yelling for about 10 minutes and I tried not to response because it was sooo childish, she was in her 30s or something. So I told her she was acting childish and said like come on, how old are you? why do you have to act like this. She responded with HOW OLD ARE YÓU?! Then I really had it, I just didn't understand why she acted like this, so immature. And she said she wasn't going anywhere until I understand what she was saying, oh and she was also saying things like 'you should learn more about your dogs, cause it seems you don't know anything about them'.. right and she does? She thinks she knows my dogs better then me? She picks up her dog in the middle of fights (yeah her dog had fights with other dogs too) well yeah that's the right thing to do .......

    Anyway, she continued acting this immature, I didn't want to put my energy into it. After she left, the guy I was hanging out with told me he knows her husband very well, but that she was also acting wrong. All our dogs were playing off leash, and it doesn't have to go wrong when a dog comes with a leash, but when she came walking towards us, she had this arrogance attitude, the dog probably felt her negative energy. Anyway, he told me this was her first dog and she didn't have much experience. I mean fine, thats okay, but why did she have to be so rude.. seriously, I just don't understand people like her.

    She was yelling so much more, but I can't really think straight now. I'm just so confused people act like this, all because of.. well nothing actually. My dogs didn't do anything.
  • KentaKenta
    Posts: 236
    For an example, my dogs play exactly like this, and that's what Kitsu did to the other dog. The other guy I was hanging out with, he said it was playing too, and that she probably just have to get used to it, because this is her first dog and she probably haven't seen dog playing like this..

    http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/9429/shiba-play
  • KitsuKitsu
    Posts: 765
    She kicked your dog????? I don't care who she is, if she would have kicked my dog I would have smacked her.
  • KentaKenta
    Posts: 236
    Yeah she did, I just grabbed Kitsu immediately. I didn't smack her or anything, cause I didn't want to get physical, because I know she would do the same (really, she looked like a total bitch!!) and it would have gone the wrong way and probably more childish. I just tried to stay calm
  • INU RYUUINU RYUU
    Posts: 1507
    Not to minimize your experience but this is so common at the dog park where we go I am kind of used to it. Its sad that I have avoid these people who have limited knowledge about dogs and their behavior. They need to get a dog that runs on batteries.

    Last year one idiot swung at INU with a popper scooper. I tend to go to the dog park now when INU and Penny's friends are there and avoid it on weekends and holidays since so many "strange" owners and dogs are there. OMG, I am becoming aloof.

    As its been said before, "Its not the dog thats the problem-its the owner". Some of which are clueless.
    犬竜
    Post edited by INU RYUU at 2012-05-22 12:35:46
  • KitsuKitsu
    Posts: 765
    Well good for you, I mean if she would have kicked my dog I would have smacked her instinctively, I wouldn't want to throw down or anything.

    What type of dog did she have? A lot of people don't understand how some dogs play, hell when I first saw pictures of Shibas playing I thought it was a fight. I don't see many dogs play like that here though, I've never even seen a Shiba around this area, only person I know the that has one around here is @Kaysejean (have you seen any other shibas here, kayse?)
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Posts: 5171
    Sounds like a pretty sucky experience overall, and does illustrate why I don't take my dogs to a dog park.

    If someone kicked my dog without reason I would pretty pissed too, but I will say that if I felt my dog was in danger from a loose dog, I'd do whatever I had to to to protect it, including kicking a loose dog. None of my dogs will tolerate other dogs well, and I will protect them if I need to. But in this case, the owner was there and so it seems unnecessary. And of course I don't take my dogs to dog parks!

    But, again, not to dismiss your experience, but perhaps the play was not appropriate for her dog. If her dog was frightened by the Shiba play style, then it would be better to intervene and separate them. Some dogs can't tolerate that kind of play, and she does also have a right--and responsibility--to intervene (appropriately though) if she thinks her dog is being bullied or is scared. I've seen Shiba "play" go from play to predatory in about 30 seconds, and I often intervene in play within my own dogs, so it is absolutely critical to be watching them and be aware of how quickly play can go bad (another reason I don't like dog parks--most owners aren't paying enough attention to their dogs). So probably not letting the Shiba play with this dog (which sounds like it was smaller?) would have been the better solution here.

    And of course, she has not right to dictate who is in the dog park and who is not in there. If she was worried she should have taken her dog and left.

    But all and all, this is exactly why I don't go--way too many ways for things to go badly.

    Sorry you had to deal with this.
  • SakuSaku
    Posts: 372
    I would never tolerate anyone kick my dog! You should tell her you you will involve SPCA and police in this matter.
    Saku is quite gentle with other dogs and he only plays rough with Mina at home. At dog park, he doesn't really engage or care for other dogs. But we have been to dog park when he was still a puppy and he was bullied by a husky and a shiba. The shiba owner immediately apologized to me and took her dog away. I didn't even say a word. The husky is notoriously annoying and is known by everyone in the dog park, the trouble dog. I know the husky doesn't mean to harm but it scares other dogs. He is kind like a bully and his owner is not apologetic but rather proud. I was angry and I left the dog park without saying anything. But had the husky being more aggressive or attacking my dog, I would have said something to the owner to get a control of your dog...but never would I kick another person's dog in the dog park. That was just wrong! I would sue that woman! You have all the witness at the dog park!
    Saku & Mina's mom

    Saku & Mina
    Post edited by Saku at 2012-05-22 16:16:44
  • HarletonioHarletonio
    Posts: 22
    Yikes-that sounds horrible! Hopefully that owner does not come back. I am still leery of the dog park but my boyfriend thinks it's good for Ari's socialization. While I agree that it is good for his socialization, there are those owners who are very protective of their dogs and do not understand Shiba play. Last week there was a guy that poked Ari with some walking stick because his small reactive dog didn't want to play. I understand that all dogs do not want to play but do not bring a reactive dog to a dog park (I own a lab mix who is extremely reactive and wouldn't dream of bringin him) or at least if you know your dog is reactive, keep it away from the more social areas of the park. We also have this rather snotty first time dog owner in our obedience class that does not want Ari around her Bassett Hound-have no idea why. Ari isn't aggressive towards the dog and is just like he is with every other dog, wanting to play. The trainer knows Ari since we took him there for puppy class and now obedience level 1 and always uses him for an example for the exercises. Annoys me when other dog owners are rude like that for no reason-maybe it's a first time dog owner thing and they just are unaware of how dogs behave.
  • BuckyBadgerBuckyBadger
    Posts: 603
    I feel for you....In the video you posted with Gatsu and Lucy, Mika plays with them often in Milwaukee and plays the same way...I feel the dogs are fine until one starts yelping, then I get a "little" concerned

    Fred and Jodie...Madison WI

    **Mika....The Shiba Inu**

    **Zoey....The Schipperke**
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @Kenta, sucks that happens to you. Like Inu mentioned, that too is why I only go to the dog park when the regulars my dogs play with are there.

    It is also a good idea to get contact numbers of the dog park representative, so you can file complaints.Thankfully our dog park representative actually responds to complaints and secretly watches over the park. There was an owner that beat his dog with the "chuck it" stick. After a couple complaints, the representative caught him in the act yelling at other owners for telling him not to beat his dog. He was banned from the park.
    Post edited by Bootz at 2012-05-22 15:28:20
  • @bootz i wish they would have taken his dog away from him!
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2516
    I would and have kicked another person's dog before, but it was a very serious situation where the dog was actually attempting to attack me. I know the difference between crazy play and a real fight, and if it comes down to an actual fight or attack... I will do whatever comes to mind to protect me or my dog. But if another dog is just harassing him? No, I leash up and leave.

    Anywho, I probably would have nailed that woman good if she kicked Conker like that. Like I said before, I know the difference between harassment (which I always stop) and a fight (again I always stop), and if Conker was actually attacking someone else's dog I'd be angry about them kicking him, but it's my fault for not stopping him first, which is always the priority if it seems like someone is getting annoyed with him. I'd rather not let things get escalated and simply ruin my dog's fun rather than put him in unescecary danger from a random person.
  • AnnaAnna
    Posts: 621
    That lady clearly over-reacted, but part of your responsibility is to keep the peace between your dog and other dogs.

    When I take Hammond to a park, I never sit down. Ever. I barely even stand in one spot. I spend almost the entire time drifting around where he goes to keep an eye on him and his play. Some dogs don't like his play style. Some don't like his energy. Some don't like other dogs at all (and why they're roaming off-leash in the dog play area is beyond me). When I'm not watching Hammond, I am watching other dogs. When I'm not watching dogs, I'm watching other owners. If Hammond, another dog, or an owner starts to look uncomfortable, I intervene and redirect Hammond. Even if Hammond and the other dog are clearly just playing, if Hammond's noise is making an owner uncomfortable, I will redirect him. THEN I will tell the owner "Sorry, don't worry, though. He's definitely just playing, he's just very noisy." If they seem to be okay with that, I'll let Hammond re-initiate play with their dog if he wants. If they still seem unsure, I do my best to keep him away.

    This also means I have to always keep an eye out for dogs arriving that he's previously hassled and keep him away. If he insists, then yes, it's my responsibility to take Hammond and leave so other people can enjoy the park (though in your situation it sounds like the lady and her dog should've left or avoided the park altogether, especially if her dog was picking other fights).

    "She told me she yells because she is angry that I didn't do anything about it, so I told her i'm not going to do anything when he's just playing"

    This actually kind of makes me side with her, at least for that bit. If I thought someone's dog was bullying my dog, I'd be pissed, too, if they just stood there not doing anything. It doesn't matter if they were just playing or not. Especially with Shibas, it's understandable people might over-react to their play style. Whether the other owner is right or wrong, it's your responsibility to control your dog so everyone can feel comfortable being there.

    But yeah, kicking your dog when hers was not in actual danger is unacceptable and you should've called the cops on her.
  • KentaKenta
    Posts: 236
    @INURYUU I have experienced this a few times before, well less dramatic than this though. But one time, this dog went after Kenta for an half our or so, and Kenta didn't want to play with him so he just ignored him. I told her he didn't want to play with her dog, because he was ignoring him the whole time. She wouldn't listen and suddenly Kenta got sick of it and grabbed her dog.

    The owner of that dog was mad at me for not taking my dog an blah blah, oh come on, I've warned you and it was just obvious he was ignoring her dog, but still she wasn't doing anything about it, he kept following us. Anyway, she grabbed him in his neck and picked him up so he was hanging above the ground. He was doing a Shiba scream and I could see in his eyes that he was in pain. So I got pissed and asked her if she wanted to give me my dog bag, she took a step backwards. I almost slapped her, but then she could have called the police or anything and it would have made things worse. Anyway after 5 minutes she let go of Kenta and he came immediately towards me, he looked so sad. All the people were standing around us, and they helped me, they all thought she was acting stupid because they've all seen what happened. I've only seen her two times after that and Kenta never did anything towards her dog because he didn't went after Kenta anymore.

    But long story short lol, that dog was also young and I believed it was her first dog, same as this person. I just can't believe they don't do any research/reading before they train (if they even do that......) their dogs.
  • KentaKenta
    Posts: 236
    @Kitsu I don't know what dog she has! Wait let me look it up... I think he/she was something like this type, it's not this type, but I think I'm close.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_Spaniel

    There are a few Shiba's here, I think there are 5 or 6 Shiba's in my town. And I've spoken to them sometimes, but none of them wants to walk their dogs in the park because they don't like the people who come there (must have had similar experiences)
  • InoushiInoushi
    Posts: 555
    I personally don't think shibas should be going to dog parks. One because as they get older their tolorance for other dogs drops, two their play style isn't really liked by most dogs/owners, and three they are very sensitive so putting them in an uncontrolled environment where something may go wrong and lead to life long issues is too big of a risk.

    kenshin unfortunately had 3 bad experiences with other dogs which have made him too reactive for me to trust him around strange dogs, unless I do a proper introduction. I've been building up his tolorance level, but it has taken months and we get a lot of setbacks.

    As for the situation, I agree the woman had no right to kick your dog, but you were responsible to call your dog off when she complained. Even if your right, her anxiouness could trigger a fight. Its also possible she knew her dog was uncomfortable, and didn't like your dogs play style. I admit I would be frustrated too in that situation, but its not worth the trouble. Imagine if that kick caused Kenta to bite her? Its the same reason you didn't respond with violence, so why set him up to fail?
    Post edited by Inoushi at 2012-05-22 16:56:51
  • KentaKenta
    Posts: 236
    @shibamistress If another dog attacks one of my dogs, I will always keep my hands of the other dog. Never touch or kick another dog, it's just wrong and it makes other people more angry. It's nature, things like that happen. When things like that happen I take my dog and try to keep him away from the other dog waiting 'till the owner gets their own dog. But it wasn't even like that, he didn't attack her dog and that's what makes me so angry, that she gets like this when nothing is actually happening, and I'm just trying to telling her it's normal for them to play like this, but probably as a first time dog owner (and especially another type of breed which has nothing in common with a shiba) she doesn't understand.

    I know some people don't pay attention because they think 'oh it's a dog park, they can do whatever they want', I hate that! Something like that happened lately with Kitsu, he got attacked by another dog which was 3 times bigger than him and I tried to pull Kitsu from under that dog, but he was so strong and big. And I kept looking at his owner and they were just staring like oh whatever, I got so pissed by that. Anyway, eventually I got Kitsu and I just walked away, the dog followed us and by then, the owner called the dog back (why so late?!)

    And I guess you're right, but Kitsu was off-leash because he was playing with the other dog, 'cause I was hanging out with his owner. So he ran to her dog immediately and she acted this crazy from the beginning, so I didn't even had a chance. Btw, she just stayed at the dog park for 1 minute, let her dog swim and went out of there again. I think she felt awkward I was hanging out with the other guy, because he knows her husband very well, but didn't stood up for her.

  • KentaKenta
    Posts: 236
    @Saku Oooh I have a similar thing with a husky in our dog park. Everyone knows that husky, he's also known as a trouble dog, and the owner is also proud of her dog! I just don't understand people like that, why would you be proud of that right?!

  • KentaKenta
    Posts: 236
    @Harletonio Your boyfriend is right, it is good for their socialization. Both for Kitsu and Kenta, because Kitsu is still a puppy (but he hasn't done any harm to anyone, he loves everyone and every dog, he just plays roughly) and Kenta has been going through a lot with his previous owners and didn't socialize in the right way (not at all actually, scared of anything, aggressive to other dogs (well mostly it's because of his fear and sensitivity)) but this helps them both a lot, to take them to the dog park. But experiences like this makes me wanna hate the dog park, but still, I want them to learn how to behave around other dogs without fighting!

    I recognize your Basset-hound story. When I went to puppy class with Kitsu there were also a few people who didn't want their dogs to play with Kitsu while Kitsu just wanted to play with them. But it seems more to me like they were thinking stuff as 'I want to pay attention, I don't want my dog to play with other dogs right now, I'm here for the course and not for other people/dogs'. But that's also a part of the course right? Meeting other dogs/ socialize them and stuff.

  • KentaKenta
    Posts: 236
    @BuckyBadger My dogs always play like this with other dogs, but mostly they are his playmates they see very often so they know it's okay. Plus they all have older dogs (or have had dogs before, because those people are older and more experienced and have done their homework about dogs lol) so they know this is normal behavior and know it's alright. And even when something goes wrong, we just take them apart and walk through the park but with a leash like nothing happened and then the dogs act all normal.
  • KentaKenta
    Posts: 236
    @Bootz I wish we had anything like contact numbers, but it's just a huge park including a skatepark, soccer field and stuff like that.
  • KentaKenta
    Posts: 236
    @Losech But that's another situation, that's just self defense. So I get why you would do that. I get that she's annoyed about the way Kitsu was playing, but she could have told me normally from the beginning, without screaming and yelling immediately, that I should keep my dog with me because she doesn't like it. When she gets all psycho, I can't take her serious, that's just childish.
  • sandrat888sandrat888
    Posts: 576
    Dog parks are not the best place for socialization as there are so many unknown variables that you can't predict or control. Please consider setting up private play dates with dogs that you dogs enjoy playing with and owners that you know well for socialization purpose.

    It is every owner's responsibility to be considerate to others in the public area, such as a dog park, so everyone can enjoy the facility. Do not expect others to understand your dog's play style. If an owner or their dog is uncomfortable with your dog, call your dog back and move away.
  • KentaKenta
    Posts: 236
    @Anna I was sitting down because that's the place Kenta and Kitsu were playing with that other dog (his owner I was hanging out with) for the last half hour and all that time we were the only ones in the park (I still don't get it why no one was there while it was 86 degrees) It's a mini beach thing, with sand and water, so they weren't going anywhere except there because it was hot and they wanted to be close to the water.

    Anyway, I agree with the watching part. I always keep an eye on my dog and other dogs. Especially with Kenta, since he used to grab other dogs when I just got him because he never got socialized with his previous owners (I always kept him on leash when I just got him) but he knows how to ignore them now very well if I tell him to. Actually, I get a lot of comments lately about people noticing how well he improved from when I just got him, makes me feel good that people notice things like that and I'm also getting comments like that from people who's dog has been attacked by Kenta before. It's good they can say things like that normally without getting all angry and stuff, it's unnecessary. I also tell them that Kenta never have been socialized, so they know why he was like that in the beginning.

    I partially agree, but with her kicking Kitsu (he's the sweetest dog I've known, he really does no harm to anyone (of course still keep an eye on him)), got me so angry so I didn't had the intention to do anything about because I was more focused on her than about taking Kitsu. She even continued going mad after I took Kitsu (I took him immediately after she kicked him) but she could have just stop going all crazy. I mean I took my dog away from her dog, she didn't have to keep yelling at me. Seriously, you should have seen her, even that guy was surprised she would be like this.
  • KentaKenta
    Posts: 236
    @Inoushi I can see why you don't think Shiba's should be going to dog parks, but in my case it seems like the dog park has helped a lot to socialize Kenta all over again. He learns to play with other dogs he normally would never ever do, he has also learned to ignore dogs he doesn't like when I tell him too. His behavior has improved so much, that's why I still kind of like the dog park, but situations like this makes me not wanna go anymore. But I know it will do him good because it will help him even more with his socialization and ignoring dogs he doesn't like. Oh and Kitsu is nice to everyone he sees, people who come there often love him, they know he wouldn't harm anyone.

    After she kicked Kitsu, I did get him by his leash. But she was still making a scene, and going towards me yelling, but she was still holding her dog instead of just letting her dog getting into the water, I'm pretty sure that have caused more negative energy to her dog than Kitsu playing with her dog. I didn't really wanted to respond to her, but she kept coming close towards me, like she wanted to threaten me.
  • MegaenMegaen
    Posts: 265
    Sorry this happened to you this is one of the many many reasons I avoid dog parks...
  • Stef777Stef777
    Posts: 246
    @Kenta I agree with what most people are saying that it is your responsibilty to control your dog and if someone is bothered take it away. Imagine if some dog was annoying your dog or you weren't comfortable with it playing with him and the owner didn't do anything about it.... wouldn't you be upset? Given she might of overreated but you cant control that. Everyone needs to do their part and if they don't they shouldn't be allowed. Your job at the dog park is not to inform everyone what proper dog behavior is it is to let your dog enjoy himself while being respectful of others.
  • @kenta ( i wanted to share my experience with a crazy lady)
    i got into a scream fest with a lady at the (not a dog)park once, i had yumi on a ruffwear bungee leash (it stretches out to about 10' when fully extended) so she doesn't rip my arm out when she wants to chase a leaf blowing in the wind or sees a squirrel. while we were walking out and about in the park; a mom, nanny and two toddlers came about 40' from us and yumi started barking. the mom stepped in front of her kids and started screaming at me, yumi didn't lunge forward or anything she just barked a couple of times and then sat down. the mom TOTALLY over reacted and screamed at me for not having my dog on a leash, she was; i was scaring her kids, she was the one screaming and having a fit, which in turned scared her kids; and was yelling obscenities at me.
    i was so mad, but i stayed calm and told her that she wasn't setting up a good example for her kids with her language and her behavior towards my dog.
    she got so mad at my comment that she called animal control on me, i told her i'd stay and wait for them to talk to me and she told me that i was a criminal for not having my dog on a shorter leash, since they can attack children and i should go back to my country where i belong. LoL
    i waited and waited for animal control to come, they came after an hour and i explained to them that my dog was leashed this whole time and we were nowhere near the playground area and we were playing on the huge grassy lot, about the size of a soccer field. while i was trying to explain my part, the mom kept interrupting me and calling me a liar. the animal control officer said that i wasn't doing anything wrong, since my dog was on a leash. then she said, "what about all the poop (she didn't say poop) that was all over the place, that kids could step in and get diseases from my filthy animal." i almost laughed, i told the officer that i pick up after my pet and yell and give not-prepared dog owner poop bags so they can clean up after their animals, i shouldn't be blamed for the laziness of other owners, but if he wanted me to, i would pick up the poop in the park.
    the officer said there wasn't a need, but i should just go home. the lady was PISSED, she asked why i didn't get a fine that my dog almost hurt her and her kids. i was walking away when she was yelling at the officer, i felt really bad for him. i did hear her say that she was taking his name down and was going to call her attorney...
    such an over reaction to NOTHING.
    maybe i should have been nicer, to her and told her that i was sorry for my dog scaring her and her kids, but i have a feeling that no matter what i would have said would have calmed her down. her anger only seemed to escalate and turned to pure hatred as time went on.
    i have luckily never encountered that dreadful woman and her kids at the park again, and i hope never to.

    some people are ignorant and stupid, let's just hope that our encounters with them are few and far between. had that lady kicked or touched my dog, i would have gone full BITCH on her.
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    I know you said there is no contact or anything, but is this a dog park you pay membership for?

    Most have contact number for complaints at the gate or on their websites.

    Dog park I go to says aggressive dogs needs to be removed pretty much all, but two follow it they'll usually have dog either sit by them for cool down moment or go into the small dog area if no one is and then return when all are normal or the owner leaves.

    I'd report her for kicking your dog.

    "she grabbed him in his neck and picked him up so he was hanging above the ground"

    She also grabbed your dog too? Scruffing is disgusting..

    I don't go to dog parks much due to some dogs I'll go for Bella and Saya and me hangs out in small dog section.

    Maybe if she comes keep your dog with you or leave a kick isn't worth dealing with.

    This must be a new dog owner thing this person brings an airhorn and pepper spray in case a fight breaks out. I mean what if it's play and you can't see Mozart is having fun?!

    Pepper spray at the dog park! glad this person doesn't live near me..
    http://www.dogster.com/forums/Behavior_and_Training/thread/744617

    I agree dog park can be fun and good for socialization, but maybe go at different time when she doesn't go? Next time call police of the dog park people..

    Saya been taking walks with my neighbor's boxer and me and mom take her and Bella to a dog walk thing every Sunday. It's fun way to have fun with other dog owners walk and so they can socialize if they want or not and get a nice walk next to dogs. It has helped Saya not be so defensive on leash since for few times they didn't meet her and then only for short greetings.

    Is there different sections to the dog park maybe while she is there go to the small dog area? Maybe suggest she needs take her dog to trainer since she is new dog owner so she can learn what is play and what isn't? I dunno.

    If I was you if you see her coming call your dogs so they stay away.

    She needs let her dog off leash keeping it leashed in the dog park can cause issues. I've had to wait at gate for long time eventually dogs got hint and walked off so me and Saya could go in without any paparazzi.. Owners don't call their dogs when they rush the gate to greet the new dog.

    If this dog is young it needs to learn how to play and let the other dog know to leave it alone..

    My neighbor who has a labmastiff mix it doesn't know how to properly greet a dog or even play right all it does ans run full speed and slams into the dog she knocked Bella off the ground! she doesn't get when Bella ignores her she doesn't care for her..

    Sadly when she was young I gave suggestions on places for puppy class apparently she never been. Hate how people get a dog and don't put time into it.

    I hope next time things go better.

    Saya was once under a mean dog at dog park before lady acted like it was all ok she didn't help at all I chased her dog off then I went for her other dog because it was riled up going to go for Saya I had her come with me to the far end of the park and stayed away from her two dogs and her retriever mix went after a lab that never starts anything all the times I seen the lab and two guys had to separate them after that me and Saya left. Saya greeted Gus and Maggie the boxer and basset mix and we went out the gate.

    I know just goes into the small dog side or the second large dog side if she is in other not worth it she is only bad egg really. I wished I had asked her name to reported her.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • Dog parks are great in concept. Unfortunately people are stupid though. I give you credit for not bashing her head in.
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Posts: 5171
    My point about kicking a dog attacking mine is this: I walk my dogs on a leash at all times. None of my dogs particularly enjoy other dogs, and several are quite reactive. I have already had huge vet bills from dogs being hurt by other dogs, and I will simply not tolerate my dog being hurt by a loose dog again. So if it's between me kicking a loose dog to protect my leashed dog, well, no question what I'll do. I don't feel at all apologetic about that. Actually, lately, I've been thinking I might need to carry a stick or pepper spray or something, because we've had so many problems with loose dogs in our neighborhood.

    A dog park is not a good place for socialization because you can't really control the dogs that show up there--and you get idiots like these people you've had to deal with. The kicking is bad enough, but the scruffing is absolutely unacceptable (because I suspect this was not like my extreme scenarios when I would hurt a dog that was hurting mine, but rather a misunderstanding of play style). These experiences alone are enough to make me want to go!

    Also, remember a bad experience at a dog park or someplace like that is worse than less socialization. Shiba, like most NKs, have long memories, and will remember bad experiences.



  • ladyritaladyrita
    Posts: 102
    Jeez, Kenta that sounds awful. I think most of us have had our share of bad park experiences. There are so many people out there who own dogs and think they know all dogs or think they have the right to give us child rearing lessons! Honestly they probably just like the sound of their own voices :P

    Dad and I had to intervene at the park the other day. I get that dogs fight but you know as a parent when enough is enough. Tsumo was play fighting with this little terror (sorry terrier) and having a good time when this big GSD came barrelling in. He just went apeshit, focusing solely on Tsumo. At first we let it ride but when it looked like it was escalating we had to step in...not happy that we had to but it was necessary.

    Despite the attack and the insolent people, Tsumo still loves going to the park so we take him. Just not at times when silly people are around...at first I hated that I was restricted to specific times but at least Tsumo gets what he wants :P Perhaps try going to the park at a different time?
  • konpeitokonpeito
    Posts: 281
    I feel like the only time you should need to intervene with dogs playing is when it escalates to aggressive fighting and someone might actually get hurt or if the other dog doesn't like it. Apollo plays rough with this dog at the park all the time. She'll pin him down over and over and I think he actually enjoys it. He'll try to pin her down too and chase after her, etc. and he's never showed signs of pain so I just let them be. Some people really just don't understand dog play. One time this couple brought their new puppy to the dog park (and they obviously were new to having a dog) and the woman got worried when Apollo was trying to play with the puppy and mouthed his back because Shibas look so vicious when they're playing with the teeth bared. So she thought he was trying to hurt him when he was just trying to initiate play. I guess it's fine so long as they don't try to discipline my dog or hurt them physically, which she didn't. But I mean, really? How do you think dogs play? They're dogs and they use their mouths to explore and a lot of them like to tumble around and wrestle. Do you think they just chase each other around a little and gently paw at each other? Lol.

    My dog isn't aggressive in the least, so I never worry when he plays with another dog. But yeah, there will always be those people who think they know your dog better than you do or just don't know anything about dogs themselves and will assume stuff and just go batty on you for the smallest things. In general I've had pretty positive experiences at the dog park we frequent and Apollo loves it, so I keep going. I've never had an escalating encounter with someone who had a big problem with my dog.

    While on the topic, is it just me or does it bother anyone else when people try to play dog trainer at dog parks? A lot of people in my area are really into Cesar Milan so, almost every time we go I hear someone do the "Sshht!" thing to their dog and it's obvious that it doesn't work... Sometimes I'll get people trying to discipline my dog for jumping on them or something (not physically, just with verbal corrections) and, idk it really bothers me. I don't do it to your dog, that's your responsibility. If Apollo does do anything misbehavioral, I do my best to correct him (like jumping on the picnic tables or something. He'll get off once I tell him to.) but overall he's at the park to enjoy himself and meet other dogs, not have a training session from an uneducated stranger.
    Apollo the Shiba Blog - red male - d.o.b. 10/30/11
  • Sarah_Jay12Sarah_Jay12
    Posts: 316
    @konpeito - jumping in for a second about Cesar.
    My fiancé and I love watching the Dog Whisperer and it really has helped us be more focused on our energy around (and towards) a dog and also gives us a good idea of the behaviors that dogs will exhibit if an owner does not put time and effort into raising it to be obedient. I do not necessarily agree with and won't be using some of his more aversive methods (like the "touch") in the rehabilitation or training of a dog, but perhaps, for some dogs, this may work. I completely share your frustration with these people who try his "touch" method on their own dog - because it's not just about snapping your dog out of the moment after they've done wrong. It's about learning how to read your dog's emotions and being able to tell how they are feeling depending on their body language & noises. And so many people dont pay attention to that part. Many people think that just by touching the dog that way at any time will solve the problem. For example, if your dog is already at a "Level 10" in anxiety, a "touch" will not bring them out of that successfully. If that type of correction is to be used, the owner needs to learn how to focus on the dog and not let it get to a "level 10" state of mind - and instead make the correction at 1 or 2 so it does not continue to elevate. And then your dog will begin to learn that this behavior is not tolerated, so therefore any subsequent behavior will also not be tolerated.

    Lol okay, no more Cesar from Sarah. :P
  • Gadget1382Gadget1382
    Posts: 107
    I would have completely lost it if anyone was physically aggressive to my dog! They would have had a complete shouting match on their hands, not to mention being reported for abuse.
    I find the "touch" command good for a play related recall, but "come" is still the primary one we use... to varying effect.
    I tend to agree, there are not enough people that train their dogs. Some unintentionally encourage their dogs bad behaviour coming to their rescue (Obviously when it’s not called for) by picking it up.
    The closest I’ve come to harming a dog is faking a kick at a bitza dog that had already jumped me (from behind, when walking home from school) and ripped a hole in my pants, giving me enough time while it jumped back, to be able to grab it’s collar when it lunged again. The owner went skits for me “kicking” her dog and despite trying to explain that I didn’t, and wouldn’t do that (unless I couldn’t somehow get control of the situation) she didn’t apologise for not controlling her dog. I told her she need to train it or give it to someone that will.
    As for parks, I’m yet to let Kobe lose, but have taken him for walks and jogs through a few with friends and their dogs. They have always worked out a lot better than the “free play” at puppy pre-school (early obedience / owner education classes) But even then, it was good to learn the different levels of play and when the signs are pointing toward aggression. It didn’t phase him and often played with the larger dogs, despite getting knocked to the ground all the time.
  • konpeitokonpeito
    Posts: 281
    @Sarah Haha, no it's fine. I actually have a lot of respect for Cesar and I enjoy watching his show as well. I do feel like someone can learn a bit about dog behavior from watching it. I just find it a bit irritating when people copy his methods the wrong way thinking they're going to get the same results from watching half an hour of him on TV or the internet. Cesar's methods work for him and he has had years of experience behind him, I'm not sure the local people at the dog park can say the same. Yet they keep using the "Sshht!" thing inappropriately and it's apparent that their dog is not listening to them either way. But yeah, I'm in no way saying I dismiss Cesar altogether nor am I saying people can't learn from him. I really admire all the work he's done to rehabilitate dogs even if I don't agree with all his methods or wish to replicate them.
    Apollo the Shiba Blog - red male - d.o.b. 10/30/11
    Post edited by konpeito at 2012-05-24 00:48:43
  • PearlPearl
    Posts: 66
    This sucks. I've had both experiences with Pearl. At the dog park in the good part of town I was scolded by some off duty firefighter about Pearl snapping after she submitted and the other dogs were lining up to take shots at her. She didn't bite, just snapsnapsnap'd her jaws just like I snap my fingers at her. I felt bad, walked around the park and came back in half an hour. It wasn't ideal behavior and I can see how the guy was concerned. Shibas are strange dogs to say the least. (Ever been to a Shiba meet? What a bunch of wonderful nutjob dogs!)

    I can't blame people for reacting poorly to Shibas, lord knows I've thought the same about Rotties, Pitbulls etc without even coming close to them.

    It really is up to the owner to be on the job. As shiba isn't a goofy pug or docile retriever. They're too rare to buy by accident, so when you bought it, you probably knew it was one of the wilder breeds of dogs.

    I had to peel a Boxer off of Pearl in the off leash park a few weeks ago, and the owner I had walked them on the leash for a bit chatting and getting to know each other. Both dogs emulated their owners and were calmly walking side by side immediately after we set the tone for the rest of our trip to the park.

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